db 143 suffering, resurrection & spiritual sharing


THAT
THIS ENMITY
WILL ARISE AGAINST
THE MESSIAH CAN ALSO
CLEARLY BE DERIVED BY MIDRASHIC READING
OF THE END OF DANIEL 7 AS WELL:
"AND HE WILL SPEAK WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH,
& HE WILL OPPRESS THE HIGH HOLY ONES, AND HE WILL THINK TO CHANGE THE TIMES & THE LAW,
& THEY WILL BE DELIVERED INTO HIS HAND UNTIL A TIME, TWO TIMES & HALF A TIME.
BUT THE JUDGMENT SHALL SIT, & THEY SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS DOMINION,
TO CONSUME & DESTROY IT UNTO THE END;
& THE KINGDOM & THE DOMINION, & THE GREAT-
NESS OF THE KINGDOMS UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN,
SHALL BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH:
HIS KINGDOM IS AN EVERLASTING KINGDOM, AND ALL DOMINIONS SHALL SERVE AND OBEY HIM."

Those Jews who read the Son of Man
in accord with the end of the chapter as representing the People of Israel
had to do some harmonizing work to explain away the clearly divine implications of the vision in the first part,
but those Jews, in turn, who gloried in the divinity of the Son of Man also had some hard harmonizing work to do to explain the end of the chapter in accordance with their reading of the first part, understanding the "People of the Most High" as that divine Messiah. It is the mashiach Yehoshua (aka Jesus Christ), who is accordingly (thus) handed over to the wicked one for a prescribed interval, here said to be "a time, two times, & half a time." This narrative of the Messiah was not a revolutionary departure within the religious history of the communities of readers of the Bible but an obvious & plausible consequence of a well-established tradition of reading Daniel 7 as being about a divine-human messiah. Some ascribed the transfer of this theme from the People of the Holy Ones of G d (a corporate {"Q"?}entity) to Yeshu (an individual) on the basis of an alleged "Christian exegetical tradition which thinks of Jesus as the inclusive representative of the People of G d." The "Christian" exegetical tradition has its point of origin in Dan 7, which was then naturally joined in the manner of midrash with the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 & to the Psalms of the Righteous Sufferer, for which there was apparently also a tradition of messianic reading. I (DB) think, however, that this is plausible enough to have been the extant Jewish tradition even aside from Jesus! I do not know early evidence outside of the Gospels for this particular way of reading the Dan.-material as applying to a suffering Messiah, still less to a dying & rising one, and I have no reason to think that it did not fall into place in this particular Jewish Messianic movement. (As we saw already several times before, the reading of "all this" as referring to the Messiah is not un-known to later rabbinic Judaism, not at all!) It should be noted that also in Fourth Ezra (also as discussed in db71) an enemy arises to mess., an enemy eventually defeated by him 'forever & ever!'

Mor supposes,
such a construction/explanation is as humanly possible & probable
as our experience of any kind of love & tenderness, suffering & mourning, hoping & wishing,
believing 'good conquers evil' even through the most disastrous times & places:
it is as natural/cultural as wanting to defend and care for the children, the old & the sick?
Even 'plants' and 'other animals before us' have this capacity especially if confronted by disadvantage & hopeless situations? I guess it is the opposite of our equally realistic conclusion that 'evolution, creation, nature & culture' are many times totally 'blind, pointless, chance & fate': we WANT the side we prefer to 'win' as simple as sportclubs 'want to win', be stronger
& more successfult than 'the enemy'/adversary!

Isn't that also the case behind our wanting
to choose between several possibilities,
including the 'wrong choices'.

In that way human beings really are 'created' by the evolution that started long before us:
by whatever name we call this process is usually totally arbitrary? G d, the One & Only, Spirit or
Eternal One, Yahweh, Yehoshua or any other name we like to use to explain
"all that we want"!

It either illustrates beauty & meaning or is so used to 'prove some superstition'?

You might as well ask why we
like perfection, loving kindness
& dislike pain,
stupidity &
violence?
02 mrt 2013 - bewerkt op 03 mrt 2013 - meld ongepast verhaal
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