db 153 there are, moreover, traditions in the Baby


LONIAN
TALMUD AND
THUS ATTESTED FROM
THE FOURTH TO THE SIXTH
CENTURIES A.D. (BUT VERY LIKELY
EARLIER), THE MOST FAMOUS AND EXPLICIT
OF WHICH IS SANHEDRIN 98b. REFERRING TO THE MESSIAH,
THE TALMUD ASKS THERE OPENLY, "WHAT IS HIS NAME?" AND VARIOUS NAMES
ARE PROFFERED BY DIFFERENT RABBIS. AFTER SEVERAL DIFFERENT VIEWS, WE FIND: "AND THE RABBIS SAY,
'the leper' of the House of Rabbi is his name, for it says, 'Behold he has borne our disease, and suffered our pains,
and we thought him smitten, beaten by God and tortured' [Isa. 53:4]. These version are almost certainly anterior to the Babylonian Talmud's parallel, which indicates that it is the Messiah, Son of Joseph, for whom they are mourning. This alternative Messiah, known only from the Babylonan Talmud & later texts, seems precisely to represent a sort of apologetic way of avoiding the implications of earlier traditions within which the Messiah suffers and/or is slain, such as is clear from the PT version of this tradition; "Rabbi Dosa & the Rabbis Differ: Messiah Ben Joseph in the Babylonian Talmud," could hardly be more wrong in his interpretation of the rabbinic material. He insists that the Palesti-nian Talmudic text is TANNAITIC, notwithstanding the fact that it says "two Amoraim" explicitly; he considers the Babylonian Talmudic text primary & the Palestinian one secondary, & he seems to think that if the saying is quoted in the name of Rabbi Dosa, that means that it is something that actually was said by a figure who lived while the Temple still stood! Finally, he insists that the text cited expli-citly as amoraic must be tannaitic simply because its diction is Hebrew & all Hebrew texts, eo ipso, are Palestinian and before A.D. 200, which further reveals his innocence of rabbinic textual knowledge. I (DB) know of no evidence for a Messiah the son Joseph before late antiquity. Claims to find one in the Hazon Gabriel of the first century B.C. seem highly suspect since this finding would be dependent on a very doubtful reading indeed!? "The Apocalyptic & Messianic Dimensions of the Gabriel Revelation in Their Historical Context," may be perhaps correct in reading the name Ephraim in II. 16-17 of this newly discovered text, but the reading is at best doubtful & in the opi-nion of some exper epigraph era IMPOSSIBLE?! It seems rather a weak read [sic] on which to base a second Messiah nearly half a mil-lennium before its attestation in the literature. If the Palestinian Talmud, then, imagines a dead Messiah, it must be
THE
Messiah & not a second or other Messiah of which it speaks.

Note that the supposed existence of a "War Messiah" in rabbinic literature is a chimera. "The one anointed -
MASHUAH nòt MASHIAH
- for war" is a special priest & nothing else, as an examination of every place in rabbinic literature where the term occurs confirms easily! H. Zellentin's interpretation of the Babylonian Talmudic passage may have some merit in finding an allusion to Christian passion narratives there, but his claim that it is based on an earlier narrative of a double Messiah seems shaky in the extreme to DB?

To be sure, the BT does not seem to be inventing the concept here; rather, it is reflecting a known entity, but one for whom there is no prior evidence whatever within any extant text.

When the PT says that the Messiah died, it therefore can only mean
THE
Messiah. The word for "disease" here means "leprosy" throughout rabbinic literature & is translated
LEPROSUS
by Jerome
as well!

Mor
weet niet
wàt te denken
van "zo'n soort 'huidaandoening'"
&/of het 'zweten van bloed', de invloed van 'handopleggingen
& aanrakingen', 'papjes van speeksel & klei' op 'aangetaste ogen', 'water in wijn veranderen' & 't
al of niet toepassen van claviceps purpurea, cannabis &/of opium bij "wonderbaarlijke spijzigingen van de massa's", "vermenigvuldig
van al die broden & vissen" of wat er verder nog op zou kunnen duiden dat er méér in het spel is dan alleen maar simpel bijgeloof
en wishful thinking, overdreven volksgeroddel, extreme honger & dorst, werkloze & thuisloze massa's uitgestoten zieke onteigenden
& allerhande 'seizoensslaven' onder erbarmelijke omstandigheden na die (tientallen) jarenlange Grieks-Romeinse bezettingen,
wrede Herodiaanse maatregelen & al die grijpgrage zakkenvullende stad-houders,
egotistische collaborerende elites, de medisch onderlegde Essenen
& de diverse bewoners
van Qumran
e.d.!?

Blijkbaar
was er in àl die landen
rondom de middellandse zee
een zeer grote behoefte aan 'bevrijding', 'verlossing', 'wederzijdse hulp,
diaconie/armenhulp' & de invloed van hygiënische regels, 't houden van gezamenlijke maaltijden
{voordoor} 'van armen & rijken', extreme onderdrukking door geheime diensten
& onzekere ambtenaren toen & aldaar, net als nu & hier,
tot in de verste uithoeken van de aarde &
tot & met miljonairs & holbewoners
uit 't stenen tijdperk
aan toe
...
OK!
04 mrt 2013 - bewerkt op 05 mrt 2013 - meld ongepast verhaal
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